A response to Sattvicwarrior
Firstly, this was written for the combox of the previous post, but became so lengthy that it was difficult to read, so out of expediency, I have decided to make a separate post. Please read the comments of the previous post, to pick up the topic being discussed. Thanks. Sattvicwarrior, I hope you won’t mind, either. :-)
I’m sure you didn’t mean to be offensive, but first things first, please, no racist or xenophobic comments, which includes attributing the guilt of the Nazi Party on the German people. Similarly, I’m sure that you know how the German people were forced into “patriotic” organisations by the Nazi Party, such as the “Hitler Youth”, under pain of death. Throwing mud helps no one; it just makes conversation more difficult. You argue with great passion and I would not have expected you to say something so base and tabloid-esque. The accusation that the present Pope was a card-carrying Nazi is becoming a very tired, groundless and hackneyed accusation. If you have an issue with him, be more original: read one of his books or sermons and comment on that. You have great intelligence, so that would make for an interesting discussion. “Jesus of Nazareth” is a great book and appropriate place to start, bearing in mind what we are discussing here!
I’ve read UKOK’s comment again and still can’t see why you felt attacked personally by her words. I guess she was judging the professor’s actions. He plans to desecrate the Eucharist. Aside from the scandal that Christians and others will feel at this, he brings judgment upon himself. This is one of the reasons why I asked people to remember him in their prayers. He will be committing a very grave sin; it is the duty of all Christians to pray that he is saved from that sin.
When first I started writing a follow-up comment to you, I filled it with lots of Bible quotations and excerpts from the Fathers of the early Church and later theologians, such as Thomas Aquinas to explain what Christians, and Catholics especially, believe about the Eucharist; but you know what, I don’t know whether just giving you a testimony of my faith might not be the best way of explaining why to Catholics, and many other Christians, this is not just a “cracker”. Throwing quotes around is often misused by all sides in an argument. I’m going to lay myself open to you: in any reply, I’m sure that you will respect that. Please don’t think I’m being condescending or superior. If I at any stage, I come across as sounding so, it is not intention and I hope you will forgive me. You have written about your deep respect for the person of Christ. I would like to tell you about my own deep respect and love for Christ and why His Church and the Eucharist are so ineffably linked to him. Remember, this is just me writing, on behalf of me and no one else. If you think I’m in error, don’t impute it upon anyone else. I am no professor of theology, just a simply man in the pew.
Christians believe that we have a free will: to choose between doing good, or doing evil. Our choice to ignore God’s law at the very beginning of time has led to humanity falling into sin. Remember, it was from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil that Adam and Eve decided to eat. Without God, who is all Truth, we can only make mistakes. We deceive ourselves into thinking that we are like God (cf the Tower of Babel). In doing so, we find ourselves sinking deeper into a situation of our own making. You could argue that God could just pick us up, dust us down and forgive us, but this would violate the principal of Justice. We live in a society today that prides itself on “getting out” of sticky situations without consequences, but there is usually someone left hurt by our desire to get away with the sin or the crime. No sin is victimless and if we try and make a case against justice, then we just compound someone else’s pain. So, Justice is an absolute, just as Truth is an absolute. Neither of these are relative: modern antinomianism, while popular with many today, is but a myth and a deceit.
However, God is Love. This is another absolute; and God so loved the world that he sent His Only Son into the world, not to condemn it (even though it deserved to be condemned), but to save it by taking all of its many sins upon Himself. This was the only way that humanity could be redeemed from the slavery of sin. S Paul says that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners and he described himself as being the worst of sinners. Even those perceived as the “greatest” of Christians, must acknowledge that they are sinners like everyone else; they too need God’s Mercy. There is no shame in recognising our need for mercy. The problem starts when we don’t.
There’s nothing new in this slavery. Today, more than ever before, we human beings confuse “freedom” with “licence”. Think how ultimately destructive the abuse of alcohol or sex is (on a temporal level – ignoring the spiritual damage) and yet we, as a society, carry on and hail this licence as true freedom, even though we know it leads ultimately to destruction. Why is the family breaking down in our modern age? Love, respect, kindness, fortitude, patience: all these are necessary ingredients for a stable family. Instead, we see only the vices of the ego at work and the result is broken homes, unloved individuals and the murder of the innocents because we as a society prize our right to sexual gratification over the unborn’s right to life. An example of the deceit of our brave new world (sic) in which the professor and like-minded secularists rejoice:
In the UK recently, there have been a great many teenage killings, mainly in London. Do you think these deaths were caused by people trying to live by God’s law or were they committed by poor souls, who have been beguiled by the glamour and myth of a false freedom which they will never attain? We recognise the power of the Devil in this and we are (or should be) called to help people fight this darkness. Therefore, you won’t find the woolly-headed or the secular liberals out on the streets at night, trying to help these people. (If our present government politicians are anything to go by, they only venture into these “no go” areas during daylight, wearing ant-stab vests and with a large police guard.) No, the people out there on the firing line are the spiritual descendents of the Christians whom you claim to be “sicko”. Clergy and religious (monks and nuns) and laypeople from various denominations, all witnessing the God is Love – as an absolute – and not just to be nice. We can decide not to be nice, but God never stops being Love: strengthened by the Eucharist, the Sacrament (mysterion - mystery) of God’s Love, they will continue in that witness (martyrion - notice how the Greek word for witness gives us the word “martyr”): they will be out there tonight and every night; maybe doing very little, but they are doing something, risking their lives for a “cracker”? No, something far more than that, because it is the Eucharist that empowers them with the graces necessary to Love God and their neighbour– it is the Real Presence of Christ Jesus. Professor Myers won’t be there, even though he claims to care so much for his students when one of them is criticised for stealing a Host; he cares very little for their social, mental, physical and spiritual welfare; otherwise, he would be scandalised by what constitutes modern college life, which is full of vice and danger.
There’s still a need for God’s mercy, as you can see, and although Christ lived two-thousand years ago, Christians believe that He is still here, as He promised He would be, until the end of time. By the mercy of God, in the power of the Holy Spirit, Jesus Christ is present – body and blood, soul and divinity – in what you and Professor Myers think of as just a “cracker”. This is why some of the comments on this post have been so impassioned. I think you took them too personally, as I mentioned before. The Most Blessed Sacrament is the only physical think in this world that can be worshipped as God. IT IS Jesus Christ. To trample on a Host is to trample on the One who came into this world to save sinners, all sinners, from every age and place. All they have to do is ask for God’s mercy and be repentant. Even Professor Myers, should he carry out his sacrilege, will not be beyond the mercy of God.
At the Last Supper, Jesus took bread and wine and gave thanks to God. He said that the bread was his Body and the wine was His Blood. This happened during the Passover when a lamb was slaughtered by God’s people and eaten in sacrifice, symbolising the Hebrew people’s exodus from the land of slavery, Egypt. At the beginning of Jesus’ ministry, John the Baptist hailed Jesus as the “Lamb of God” and it was in this Passover supper, the night before Christ died on the Cross, that John’s words took upon themselves their full meaning. Christ is God – the Lamb of God who will become the sacrifice. Why would he even permit himself to die on the cross? He would later be mocked by people who said the same thing: He could save others, let him save himself! The answer lies in those absolutes listed above: God is Love; God is Truth. If Christ did not satisfy Justice by paying the price for our sins, then all of humanity would be damned by their own guilt. The murder of God was the greatest crime ever; but only a God who would take upon himself, fully, our human nature, while remaining true God, could express such love for us and redeem the world.
The Eucharist, is therefore more than just a “cracker” symbolising a Passover meal from two-thousand-years-ago. Christ is the sacrifice and He is also the Priest, who offers Himself to the Father for our sins: by dying on the cross and revealing the resurrection by rising from the dead; this is what we are all promised. Yes, Christ is worthy of respect and love and glory and honour and blessing – for all eternity. The Eucharist is meta-historic. The fancy word used is “anamnesis”, which is often translated as memorial. In truth, however, it is much more: in the un-bloody sacrifice of the Eucharist we are witnesses of the Sacrifice of Calvary, which was offered once and for all, for the sins of the world and we become partakers of the benefits of that sacrifice by our Communion with God and with each other. No wonder it’s called a mystery. This is no dusty old archaic ritual to help us with our “God consciousness”. It is through the Eucharistic elements that Christ keeps his promise, to be with us until the end of time. The Eucharist is Life itself and Life to the full. Once again, it is not a “cracker” that is the issue here or a “ritual… conformation of ones own existence”; but rather, it is Jesus in the Eucharist as his Real Presence, celebrated in the liturgy of the Eucharist, which Catholics believe brings life to the whole world. This is why we pray before the Blessed Sacrament. The best example I can give is like sunbathing. The more time we can spend in the presence of the SON, the Blessed Sacrament, the more “tanned” with His grace we will be.
“If CHRIST was before me I would bow and weep with humility.” Sattvicwarrior, He is, and that’s what we do (or should do).
God bless!
Saturday, 12 July 2008
Desecration of the Eucharist, continued...
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desecration,
eucharist
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8 comments:
Sweetie, you're a gem.
I was just reading this 'awesome' (what is it with these americanism's creeping into my textcabulary!?!)post of yours and saw my name....and realised i'd have to go check out that other comment i left the other day on the 'dumb professor post'.
I really did not mean to set a fire under Satthingie and I was delighted that you read my comment as it was intended and upheld my honour dear sir!
LOL!
And ys it really is 2008 but when i read your comment i had to go and check in case I had got it wrong and it was still 2007!
What a dork.
'Dork' is an australianism i think. I must have been blogging way too long.
You've just become internationalised! LOL
Great follow-up!!
please, no racist or xenophobic comments, which includes attributing the guilt of the Nazi Party on the German people. Similarly, I’m sure that you know how the German people were forced into “patriotic” organisations by the Nazi Party, such as the “Hitler Youth”, under pain of death. ETC ETC ETC.
DUDE you are totally right on what you say and it was nothing more than a cheap shot on my part. I knew it . It was just more fuel for the fire so to speak.,. CHEAP fuel at that .
I’ve read UKOK’s comment again and still can’t see why you felt attacked personally by her words. I guess she was judging the professor’s actions.
.. I was TOTALLY wrong on that also dude! I dont JUMP to conclusions I LEAP at them . it’s the pattern of people like myself who run around the world at top speed from the time they wake up to the time they retire. .. I DEFINATLY have to many bells and whistles” and the strength of 3 men . so you see its MY problem .[ I have may awards and ciatations and placques etc YET. I have NEVER won a award for social graces] and regrettably and as usual I over reacted.. . I really made myself look like a fool on that one. WHAT a dork I am . I ASSUMED she was directing her comment toward my response. How stupid and moronic can I BE??? good grief what an IDIOT I can be at times!!!!!!
I'm always telling people that “ assumed knowledge is a dangerous thing. well maybe I should take the time to practice what I preach.... I believe George Bernard Shaw once said. “ if you can t learn it teach it”. thanks for bringing to my attention in your rather eloquent way what a TOTAL IDIOT I am with my approach to that ..
When first I started writing a follow-up comment to you, I filled it with lots of Bible quotations and excerpts from the Fathers of the early Church and later theologians, such as Thomas Aquinas to explain what Christians, and Catholics especially, believe about the Eucharist; but you know what, I don’t know whether just giving you a testimony of my faith might not be the best way of explaining why to Catholics, and many other Christians, this is not just a “cracker”. Throwing quotes around is often misused by all sides in an argument. I’m going to lay myself open to you: in any reply, I’m sure that you will respect that....
not only do I have RESPECT for you your honesty sincerity and directness which truly makes you a MAN amongst men . Perhaps and hopefully I evoked the REAL you .?
Anybody can quote from a book or whatever. That doesnt amont ot a hill of beans. .. but when you speak from your heart as you have makes you in my eyes one powerful and good person. I come across dudes like you once in a great while every few years.. IT gives me FAITH in the human race.
you’re a good man , you have good powers, and your convictions are expressed with humility. This is a rare combination in the contemporary world of spirituality. I'm NOT patronizing you as I am MOVED by your approach to deal with me directly on your format.
IN this sense that you took time I feel honoured that you should be so eloquent in your expression .
.. Please don’t think I’m being condescending or superior. If I at any stage, I come across as sounding so, it is not intention and I hope you will forgive me.
dude… not a snowballs chance in hell you come across that way. I'm awed by your strength your honesty sincerity and directness. The very fact that you have taken the time to express yourself with such sincerity is moving to me and there is NO reason to explain anything about yourself because I know EVERYTHING about you that is pertinent for spiritual interaction. . I can see in your picture of yourself EXACTLY what you are. that's why I persisted responding on your post. you’re a GOOD man . and an honest one , and the qualities that you possess are not to be taken lightly, especially your own self. I usually get " how im going to burn in hell forrever type of dialouge" for my slash and burn technique . But ya fooled me. GOOD FOR YOU . you got ME to stop and think.
. Remember, this is just me writing, on behalf of me and no one else. If you think I’m in error, don’t impute it upon anyone else. I am no professor of theology, just a simply man in the pew.
. this is Not about ERROR or right or wrong. its just an observation and commentary on viewpoints for assorted differnt perspectives. that's all for no other reason than most people take all this WAY to seriously. . and that's NOT what spirituality is. . I'm not out to INFLUENCE or change anyone or anything . all my purpose is , is to present a differnt perspective of course its profoundly un orthodox, and most certainly profanea s well as absurd in a lot of ways. . But look what it has done. it brought you to step up to the plate. and not only make a statement about my dumb shows and noise. you SPOKE with great eloquence, strength, compassion and understanding. Would you have done that with your everyday mundane interaction with other said disciples on the same path??
We deceive ourselves into thinking that we are like God (cf the Tower of Babel). In doing so, we find ourselves sinking deeper into a situation of our own making.
.. yup totally agree with you but.. the word “WE”. dude. your not a “we”. your not a collective consciousness of what others say in their cesspool of spiritual mediocrity.
you as a person are YOU !!!!!!! that's what makes your commentary to me so unique. and sorry dude. you ARE like GOD. [ actually we ALL are]. . those that pretend to WALK the WALK but only TALK the TALK are not the same. so to LUMP everyone into a simple category that belongs in the tower of BABLE is a cop out. DUDE there is a DIFFERENCE identifying with GOD [ omnipresence, and non dual state ] and EGO
which is all based in the limited consciousness of duality which constantly needs to confirm its own existence
You could argue that God could just pick us up, dust us down and forgive us, but this would violate the principal of Justice.
.. dude!!!!!!!!!!! why are you so preoccupied with the “ plural “ , you are speaking as a wonderful and compassionate INDIVIDUAL . sorry bud. tis what ya are. your not a dork nor hateful nor do you come off as a control freak . you come off as a man who bears his heart to a total stranger[ me]. with compassion and spiritual love . that's NOT for the “WE “ or the US” that's your SOUL. that's your individuality that you have strengthened through your own spiritual enquiry. . that's POWERFUL . so Dont lump it into a collective consciousness.
.. We live in a society today that prides itself on “getting out” of sticky situations without consequences, but there is usually someone left hurt by our desire to get away with the sin or the crime. No sin is victimless and if we try and make a case against justice, then we just compound someone else’s pain. So, Justice is an absolute, just as Truth is an absolute. Neither of these are relative: modern antinomianism, while popular with many today, is but a myth and a deceit.
. that statement makes no sense to me. to much going on .
However, God is Love. This is another absolute; and God so loved the world that he sent His Only Son into the world, not to condemn it (even though it deserved to be condemned),
.. awwwwwwwwww man ., I CANT believe you said that . I'm bowing before your eloquence and your sincerity and you say some thing EGOTISTICAL like (even though it deserved to be condemned). where did THAT come from . ??
Anyway. there is a LOT more to address here but it would take up to much space.
thanks for calling me on the carpet. you’re a class act. I appreciate your input. ..
respectfully
sattvicwarrior..
Philip, this was a beautifully written piece. Truth of course has a natural beauty and you expressed it well.
God's love is awesome (to nick Deb's word lol) and terrifying-and we are so blessed to receive Him in the Holy Eucharist.
God bless
M, Thank you.
Well, Declaramus! Sorry, I have ideas above my station calling upon the royal "WE". ;-)
Sat, i really respect you for admitting you jumped the gun on this and i'm glad that you now see that i never meant any offence to you :-)
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