From the Catholic League:
MYERS DESECRATES THE EUCHARIST
University of Minnesota professor Paul Z. Myers made good on his pledge to desecrate the Eucharist today. According to his statement on the subject, “I pierced it [the Host] with a rusty nail (I hope Jesus’s tetanus shots are up to date). And then I simply threw it in the trash.”
Saying he did not want to “single out just the cracker,” Myers also tore pages from the Koran along with a few pages from Richard Dawkins’ The God Delusion and nailed them to the Host. He then said, “They are just paper. Nothing must be held sacred. (His emphasis.) Question everything. God is not great, Jesus is not your lord, you are not disciples of any charismatic prophet.”
Catholic League president Bill Donohue responded as follows:
“A formal complaint against Myers has already been made. What he did—in both word and deed—constitutes a bias incident, as defined by the University of Minnesota. The policy says that ‘Expressions of disrespectful bias, hate, harassment or hostility against an individual, group or their property because of the individual or group’s actual or perceived race, color, creed, religion…can be forms of discrimination. Expressions vary, and can be in the form of language, words, signs, symbols, threats, or actions that could potentially cause alarm, anger, fear, or resentment in others…even when presented as a joke.’
“The University must now take action and apply the appropriate sanction. We are contacting the president, Board of Regents and the Equal Opportunity and Affirmative Action Office at the school, as well as Minnesota’s governor and both houses of the state legislature; the Catholic community in Minnesota is also being contacted. Moreover, we are also contacting Muslim groups nationwide.
“It is important for Catholics to know that the University of Minnesota will not tolerate the deliberate destruction of the Eucharist by one of its faculty. Just as African Americans would not tolerate the burning of a cross, and Jews would not tolerate the display of swastikas, Catholics will not tolerate the desecration of the Eucharist.”
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14 comments:
You left off the conclusion of Myers comments
He said-
"You are all human beings who must make your way through your life by thinking and learning, and you have the job of advancing humanities' knowledge by winnowing out the errors of past generations and finding deeper understanding of reality. You will not find wisdom in rituals and sacraments and dogma, which build only self-satisfied ignorance, but you can find truth by looking at your world with fresh eyes and a questioning mind."
Media Hound Bill Donohue serves only to build up his self-satisfied indignation and ignorance.
Gosh, I dislike existentialists!
This poor man. So more prayers. The conclusion of his comments are meaningless and where there is any meaning they lack truth. How can wisdom grow where there is no respect for God or fellow men? How can there be a better understanding of reality where parts of it are discarded?
We learn through respecting others and behaving with some dignity surely.
God bless
Ben F,
Thank you for providing that last paragraph. I believe, very strongly, that Myers must have the opportunity to make his case, for it exposes him as just one more false prophet of the multi-personality, pseudo-science cult that tries so hard to replace religion and does no credit to serious science. Knowing a few atheists, who cite their disbelief through science, I am pleased that, from my experience, Myers is just a publicity-seeking exception to the rule.
Your comment came in within seconds of the original post. I noticed that you arrived at this blog, having searched for “myers, desecration, donohue” in Google. Is it your mission to go throughout the Web standing up for Mr Myers and denouncing Mr Donohue?
At least “Media Hound Bill Donohue” wouldn’t fall into the trap of writing “ humanities’ “, when he actually meant to say “ humanity’s “. Now, while I appreciate Myers is not a professor of HUMANITIES, his behaviour does rather question his own humanity and skill with the basic rules of the language.
Show me one good thing that has come from his actions? How is his behaviour different to Nazi book burnings, which I’m sure he claims to deplore?
All this came about because he was upset that a student had been criticised for holding a Host for ransom. Has Myers’ behaviour helped this student pay off his student debt or avoid the other pitfalls of student life? Some concern! Thank God that the student in question has the Church to fall back on.
A Quote from Myers Blog:
I wonder how many of our Catholic friends have heard of the Fourth Lateran Council of 1215? This is the event where many of their important dogmas were codified, including the ideas of Extra Ecclesiam nulla salus, that the Eucharist was the sacrament that only properly ordained priests of the Catholic church could give, and that the Jews were a pariah people, who could hold no public office, had to pay a special Jew tax for their right to exist, and were required to wear special clothing to distinguish them from Christians. The yellow badge marking the Juden was not an invention of the Nazis, but a decree by faithful Catholics in the Middle Ages......
He supposes that Science has always had all the answers and does not have a context of time..he shows anger at the attempt of humanity to find meaning in life through faith, rather than science. His desecration of a Sacred Host is not done on an intellectual basis or with an ounce of dignity or scientific research rather it is an immature attempt to ridicule, one which has the potential to bite him on the backside. His actions in desecrating the Host do not serve any scientific purpose, rather they demonstrate a man who has hate and contempt for faith. Perhaps because it can not be explained. As a biologist he wants to understand how things are.. he does not give time to the why things are. I believe his actions were done in vanity.. To get some kind of hero status among his arrogant peers..He now worries about losing his job and is justifying his position by be-moaning the content of the thousands of emails of complaint that are coming his way.. I would say don't be worried about losing your job, but be more worried about losing your soul...Prof Myers can you demonstrate more humility and less arrogance please
Philip-
Thanks for the courtesy of responding to my post on your blog.
You ask - "Is it your mission to go throughout the Web standing up for Mr Myers and denouncing Mr Donohue?"
No. I was searching for information on Donohue's reaction to Myer's action, and I came across your site. I felt that the quote from Myers was misleading because it left off the final paragraph, so I provided it for clarity.
But now, since you have responded, I am, as they say, In for a penny, in for a pound.
You said - "All this came about because he was upset that a student had been criticised for holding a Host for ransom."
That is most certainly not the case. If the UCF student had merely been critisized, (by the way, you shouldn't throw stones about spelling) none of this would have come about.
In Myers' initial response to Donohue, Myers was upset because the student had received death threats in response to his action.
Donohue, instead of being concerned about the vileness of the death threats leveled at Webster Cook, wrote that "It is hard to think of anything more vile than to intentionally desecrate the Body of Christ." Further, Donohue called for the expulsion of the student.
Donohue's followup to Meyers' post decrying Myers' threat, and calling for Myers' termination resulted in similar threats of death and attack to Myers and his family.
It's not hard for me to think that issuing, or acting upon death threats to a human being are far more vile than any action Myers or Cook did concerning the wafer.
You challenged - "Show me one good thing that has come from his actions?"
I think that it is good that he showed how unthinking obedience to dogma can lead to perverted moral judgement that goes unopposed by religious establishments. This is, unfortunately true of most religions, not just Christianity.
Do you, or anyone else really think that God, King of the Universe, can in any way be damaged by any mortal man's action to a wafer? NO. It is just a symbol, and the life of a man should be ultimately more important than a symbol.
Jesus said "I am the bread of life", but we understand that was allegory. At the last supper Jesus said "Do this in rememberance of me", not "When a priest says some words over a cracker, thus consecrating it, I will bestow the cracker with my essence, so take, and eat."
If it's more than a symbol, prove transubstantiation to be real, and not merely a ritual conjured up a thousand years ago by a bunch of priests.
this Meyers dude is totally right on with that paragraph. . although a bit extreme in his presentation , [ actually kind of theatrical . ] but that last paragraph by Mr. Franklins comment really says it all.
So What is more important a SYMBOL of what should be or the actuality of BEING? [ i.e. EXPERIENCEING god personally and internally and not COPYING what is should represent. through symbols like “ crackers” and reliquaries and outlandish church robes and men running around in pointed hats with crosiers and spouting intellectual twaddle because some one has said it to be so to confirm their own vapid existence. ?? ]
He sounds like a VERY spiritual man , and if Anyone needs prayers it’s the myopic people that say “ he has to be prayed for”. gimme a break . .
a SYMBOL is NOT god. you can EXPERIENCE god you CANT experience a SYMBOL. a symbol is an INTELLECTUALZATION .
If people are THAT insecure then they really have no true identity with their own spirituality and their god is one of convenience not of sincerity.
That dude in the article said. Expressions of disrespectful bias, hate, harassment or hostility against an individual, group or their property because of the individual or group’s actual or perceived race, color, creed, religion…can be forms of discrimination.
..uhh dude,. talk about HIPOCRASY with in the church., I'm sure when the aboriginal nations of the south pacific Melanesia Micronesia and the messo Americans were told they were awful and horrid people they were for not “ believing “ in the symbols they presented as TRUTH by the “ holy” fathers and had their vision of “ god” destroyed and replaced with the “ symbol of Christianity it really wasn’t much different. they gave them the bible and had them close their eyes and repent their heathen ways. Then when they OPENED their eyes, they had the bible and the leaders of the church had their property, and many of their other possessions and all they [ the natives had]was the bible. so you see it works BOTH ways.
How many cultures with written history were DESTROYED in the name of the church destroying symbols??. One self serving Jesuit by the name of diego de landa comes to mind as he had hundreds of years of history had folklore which was sacred to the Mayans BURNED. [ only a small bit of it remains which is in of all places in France. ALL because HIS symbol was MORE important than the MAYANS.
The story repeats itself throughout history. this man Meyers is NOT as bold and aggressive nor as hostile and murdering as the church fathers of the past. .
the dude sounds more saintly to me,.. HE didn’t destroy ANYTHING . [ mmmmmmmmm . well maybe just crushed a few bloated egos in the church.] but destroying symbols is 's a LOT better than DESTROYING the NATION to make a point to get people to THINK..
Ben F Cried...You challenged - "Show me one good thing that has come from his actions?" Ben F thought for a moment and offered an explanation that great minds down through the centuries must have missed ..oh it is so simple...Ben F says
I think that it is good that he showed how unthinking obedience to dogma can lead to perverted moral judgement that goes unopposed by religious establishments. This is, unfortunately true of most religions, not just Christianity.
As unthinking sweeping statements go.. that one takes some beating!
It is obvious from your comments Ben F that you have no intention of being open for debate, rather you indulge in defending the indefensible..the desecration of the Host was not an act of nobilty on the part of Prof Myers who was somehow standing up for the rights of another..it was an immature offensive act, which has appalled and sickened many people, many enlightened people, who do not have an "unthinking obedience" to their faith, but who have a thirst for knowledge and truth just like any other free thinking people.
If Prof Myers is a noble, free thinking champion of humanity, and an upstanding individual, fighting for the rights of his students and every other person of faith is enslaved by Blind Obedience and therefore incapable of thinking for themselves, then I guess you have a point Ben...
The best comment regarding Prof Meyers has come from the Western Confucian, read here Reply to Myers
Sattivc Warrior
I'd be interested to know which you consider worse in terms of their demonstration of cultural iconoclasm : the Taliban's destruction of the Great Buddhas in Afghanistan or the desecration of the Host as performed by Prof Myers?
I'd say the Taliban were the bigger cultural vandals even though there haven't been many Buddhists in Afghanistan for generations.
Desecration of the Host, is something else. It is in one sense a meaningless act because God can not be hurt. It is designed to hurt those who believe (that is bullying and cruel). The Catholic spends his/her life aiming to become like a child, putting total trust in the God who comes to us through His Son. He made it possible for us to be part of His body through being part of His Church and partaking in the Communion of His Flesh and Blood. Yup, we're a bit freaky, live with it.
It is an insult on every Christian (part of the Body of Christ) who believes in the Real Presence who has ever lived. It is the same insult that Jesus felt when crowned with thorns.
It is a timeless act, not a historical act. It is an attack on the nature of mystery and sanctity NOT an attack on a culture.
I think you'd agree, we're poorer for his actions, there was nothing noble about his gesture. I'd have had just a little more respect for him if he'd made more of his unbelief and said like Patti Smith sang Jesus died for somebodies sins but not mine.
Pax.
RITA SEZZZZZZ
I'd be interested to know which you consider worse in terms of their demonstration of cultural iconoclasm : the Taliban's destruction of the Great Buddhas in Afghanistan or the desecration of the Host as performed by Prof Myers?I'd say the Taliban were the bigger cultural vandals even though there haven't been many Buddhists in Afghanistan for generations.....
.. well. your mixing “apples and oranges”. . for sure. this has nothing to do with “ cultural “ anything . , but from a humourous point you have proved in a bit of a metaphysical way that “ size DOES matter”..
..Desecration of the Host, is something else.
..EXACTLY my POINT.
.. It is in one sense a meaningless act because God can not be hurt. It is designed to hurt those who believe (that is bullying and cruel).
.. thats YOUR perspective and does NOT make it a universal TRUTH [ a little bit arrogant on your part dont ya think so ??? IF god cant be HURT as you say then why should YOU care what others think?? after all its YOUR relationship with god thats more important than anyone elses.
..The Catholic spends his/her life aiming to become like a child, putting total trust in the God who comes to us through His Son. He made it possible for us to be part of His body through being part of His Church and partaking in the Communion of His Flesh and Blood...
. Well that's cool if thats what you believe . then good for you . I dont have a problem with any of that . its really none of my business what YOU believe in...
Yup, we're a bit freaky, live with it...
no rita YOU live with it. I dont need ANYONE to tell me that I have to live by their self proclaimed ideology and have it considered the ONLY truth because You or anyone else says so . I can make my OWN decision with out the self righteousness of others who think because of their belief system which is applicable to their thinking principle it has to be accepted by everyone across the board as absolute truth as THEY see it . now YOU live with THAT !!! ..
..It is an insult on every Christian (part of the Body of Christ) who believes in the Real Presence who has ever lived. It is the same insult that Jesus felt when crowned with thorns.
.. .. uhhhhhhhhh.. hmmmmmmmm.. sweetie. WHO made YOU the cosmic emissary for the entire collective consciousness of religious thought that YOU believe in to make such a statement ????
It is a timeless act, not a historical act.
.. that's totally contradictory.. the very fact that it is within the boundaries of this limited fantasy we call reality [ because of the transitory nature of its very existence]is NOT timeless and thus makes itself historical .
It is an attack on the nature of mystery and sanctity NOT an attack on a culture
…. Rita. that's EXACTLY what I am saying , are you “ smokin” something ???.
..I think you'd agree, we're poorer for his actions, there was nothing noble about his gesture. I'd have had just a little more respect for him if he'd made more of his unbelief and said like Patti Smith sang Jesus died for somebodies sins but not mine...
.. sorry again dear NO I Dont agree with you . how presumptuous of you to ASSUME what others THINK. I have TOTAL respect for his actions because he created a NEW perspective that just might wake people up to exactly what it is and QUESTION what their values and attitude toward their relationship with their creator is. again it’s a personal connection with god NOT the present day collective consciousness that has evolved into a cesspool of spiritually mediocrity over the centuries which builds BIGGER churches and has MORE rituals and MORE rules to say what is for EVERYONE. Whoever thinks that repetitious austerities bring one closer to god is sorely misinformed indeed… but if that's what you believe than that's ok. I dont care.. that's YOUR choice. but Dont assume for OTHERS its THEIR choice also. . the blind lead the blind BOTH fall into the pit. that's ok to . but ASSUMED knowledge as you have proven is a dangerous thing indeed. .
Sattvic warrior
No body had ever called me sweetie before, and as it is accompanied with something akin to sarcasm, I am reluctant to reply to you.
Sir, are Catholics are just another tribe with beliefs, sacred objects and feelings that can be trampled underfoot by the mighty modern forces of existentialism and moral relativism (a bit like the way the vainglorious political wing of the Catholic Church of old behaved towards many other souls)?
The alternative is that the Catholic Church is custodian of the Truth. Truth that can be revealed to an uneducated, illiterate peasant woman murmuring away on her rosary beads. The same truth that can be revealed to a small child or a highly educated cardinal. Even Marxists have admired the Church for its universiality and lack of esotericism. This doesn't stop the body of the Church being full of bigots, hyporcites and glory hunters, that is all part and parcel of being human. Nor does it stop aspects of the truth being revealed outside of the Church.
The truth lies in humility, profound silence and prayers...you may well be wiser and closer to the divine than I. I can not read another's soul. I have just chosen to live within the Church even though it is probably the most daunting, difficult, illogical thing I can do. It is not a cosy club; it has cost me great rifts within my family and a lot of heartache.
I do hope I haven't appeared sanctimonious and pious to you. I write sincerely, not for myself but for the Church I love, even though I may be one of its weaker, more inept servants. Feel free to batter my thoughts with your bold type and part sentences.....
Namaste
Now rita.
first of all i call EVERYONE SWEETIE! including the GARBAGE man . so lighten up on that . if I said "sweety" now THATS personal and not applied to all and most CERTAINLY not someone who lives 10 thousand miles from me that i DONT even KNOW for sure... Also i LOVE my bold type and caps. SO i was born with more " crayons in my box" than most.. so as YOU would say. " live with it" this AINT gonna change the order of the universe is it???
your response was pretty cool and i agree with most of what you present and it was well put. then you say.
.. I write sincerely, not for myself but for the Church I love, even though I may be one of its weaker, more inept servants.
. now dudiene [ feminine word for dude probably spelled wrong but you get the idea and less confrontational than "sweetie" as opposed to sweety]. opps got side tracked there. now where were we?? oh yeah.
' you say
.. I write sincerely, not for myself but for the Church I love, even though I may be one of its weaker, more inept servants
.. oh c'mon. . if you aint gonna write for YOURSELF why bother?? its initially about YOU and your connection with your creator or force or whatever cosmic indivisible entity you have to identify with to be ONE with the universe. Not its dogma its rituals its endless duplicitous and contradictory ramblings and ocassional " cracker stompers"..
Could it be you are BECOMING the PATH rather than USING the PATH to get from “ point “A” to point “B”?? [ cradle to the grave analogy there]
Its irrelevant WHAT the church does or WHO does what to the physical body of it. its HOW you personally can use it as a vehicle for your spiritual progress… There are MANY rivers yet they ALL lead to the same ocean…
Feel free to batter my thoughts with your bold type and part sentences....
.. oh puleeeeeeeeeze louise.. I believe you to be sincere but “get off the cross we need the wood for the fire”..
thanks for your response.. .. oh one other thing . I totally agree with what you said about humility silence and prayers that's totally right on .. all the rest is meaningless in the long run. as one of your VERY early screen writers from the days of yore once said. “ tis full of sound and fury signifying NOTHING “ I think it was a dude named Willy Shakespeare. NOW he was the QUEEN of part sentences. and where is HE now?? so you see.. its ALL illusion anyway. ..
Let me see, apparently this cretin Myers has the "right" to incite others to steal a consecrated Host (which Catholic believe to be God, not a symbol of God, but actually God) and trample over THEIR 1st amendment rights to worship God as they see fit. No one is demanding Myers believe the same way Catholics do, but merely respect their right to worship in peace as the 1st amendment guarantees.
BF, take a hike. You're as big a loser as Myers for defending him. Frankly if Myers were really afraid of death threats as he claims to have received, he'd take photos of his house, wife, and kids down from the internet.
Myer's own daughter wrote on her blog in support of removing the laws against bestiality. He defended that. What can you expect when you give your children no moral guidance. If you follow atheism to its logical conclusion there really are no moral boundaries. Fortunately most people do not see life that way. OTherwise Myers should fear OTHER atheists with even less of a conscience than he has of someday hunting down his family to use for scientific experiments or death. Hey, there's no "soul" for atheists is there? Who's to say that a human has more value than a plant or a gerbil since there is no soul? What, you mean society is pushing their morals on the real debauched atheist? How dare they!
So when you get down to it, even a creep like Myers has to admit that there IS a hierarchy of values. The question is WHOSE values. And fortunately for him, people who believe in God outnumber by far those who don't. Otherwise he'd REALLY be battening down the hatches.
gemoftheocean-
What kind of idiot are you?
Your on-line invectives and insults are about as effective as the military capabilities of Lichtenstein, and serve only to prove that you are incapable of presenting a rational argument to support your mysticism and superstition.
You foolishly said-
"Let me see, apparently this cretin Myers has the "right" to incite others to steal a consecrated Host (which Catholic believe to be God, not a symbol of God, but actually God) and trample over THEIR 1st amendment rights to worship God as they see fit."
Idiot- If you tried reading the Constitution, you would find out that the First Amendment deals only with Congress making a law regarding religion, it says nothing regarding an individual's (like Myers) actions concerning religion.
You said-
"if Myers were really afraid of death threats as he claims to have received, he'd take photos of his house, wife, and kids down from the internet."
Brilliant- As if taking down some pictures would deter a vengeful religious zealot. How about we paint all of the skyscrapers in the USA blue, so religious zealots who have hijacked an airliner can't see them as they try to crash into them?
You said-
"Myer's own daughter wrote on her blog in support of removing the laws against bestiality."
Nice! But you failed to grasp was the actual point she was making when she said
"I think that bestiality is pretty gross and would never do it myself. I would be repulsed by watching such behaviour. This is my personal stance on it, but I do not advocate forcing my opinion on others."
Your problem is that you apparentlyDO, advocate forcing your opinions on others, and are content if others do your dirty work for you.
You said-
"If you follow atheism to its logical conclusion there really are no moral boundaries."
You propose a falacious "logical conclusion" with, unsurprisingly, no logical explanation to back up your ranting.
From Ms. Myers blog- "For something to be immoral, it must be detrimental to someone/thing. Everything else is just personal preference."
Can one be truly moral if that morality is based merely on the threat of punishment after death?
For all of your high and mighty talk about morality, you don't once decry the actions of the death threats to both Myers and the student at UCF, which prompted Myer's post in the first place. I will remind you that these death treats were sent, not by the "immoral atheists", but by nice, Jesus-loving, "moral" Christians such as yourself.
You hypocritical toad.
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